Group practice and values alignment with Hannah Turnbull

Today I'm in conversation with Hannah Turnbull talking all things values with a group practice spin.

Hannah is a registered dietitian and the founder and director of NourishED Colorado, a group practice of registered dietitians specializing in the treatment of eating disorders and disordered eating through a weight inclusive and social justice lens.  Hannah is also a group practice business coach and insurance consultant at Values Driven Group, her consulting firm for weight inclusive professionals who want to build a thriving group practice in alignment with their values.

Join us as we chat about taking values beyond solo-preneurship into group practice, knowing ourselves, values misalignments and Hannah's other favourite topic - the enneagram.

Let's dive in.

Full show notes, links and transcript at dietitianvalues.com/podcast.

Continue the conversation on Instagram @dietitianvalues

Show notes, links, mentions & transcripts dietitianvalues.com/podcast

Continue the conversation on Instagram @dietitianvalues

Transcript

0:11

Hello, hello, and welcome back to another episode of the dietician, values podcast. And it's one of my favourite episodes of the month, because we have a guest with us today. And today, I'm in conversation with Hannah Turnbull, who is a registered dietitian based in Colorado, which looks like an amazing part of the world, by the way. And Hannah, works in the eating disorder Health at Every Size space, and has her own group practice Nourished in Colorado, and also works supporting nondiet dietitians, therapists, health professionals around setting up their own group practice and bringing their values into it. Because that's a pretty cool thing to do. If I do say so myself. So welcome, Hannah. Thanks for coming and being in conversation.

Hannah Turnbull: 1:21

Thank you for having me, Laura. I love that we connect even in our our business names, just the concept of values, because it's so important. And I'm sure we'll dive into more of that as as we talk, but I'm happy to be here with you. On your very early morning right now and my start of the week, afternoon.

Laura Jean: 1:38

Yeah, nice. I know, and it's just amazing that we can connect across time zones and across spaces, you can be sitting near the mountains in Colorado, and I'm in the semi dark, suns coming now, in a little tiny village outside of Canberra, Australia. So it's pretty cool. It's one of my, it's probably my most favourite thing about social media is connecting to humans, particularly for all us like weirdo dietitians. And I use the word weirdo in a very affectionate, loving way. But also claiming it you know, that that would have traditionally lingered in our own little departments or own little pockets of the world thinking like we're the only ones but to be able to connect and realise that yeah, there's there's there's more of us out there spread across the world is pretty awesome.

Hannah Turnbull: 2:20

I also very much embody being a weirdo too. So I'm glad that you reclaim that word. And like think it's awesome. And it's, there's not another word that really describes the just the things that we we do and think and move through the world. So I'm honoured to be a weirdo on your show. And same thing with social media. It's like that intentional connection, not just consuming content or scrolling, kind of aimlessly. It's like, Oh, something you said really just resonated with me. And I'm gonna send you a message now and be like, we should be connecting. You took that brain thought out of my head, and it came out of your mouth. That is amazing.

Laura Jean: 2:59

It's pretty cool. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. And to be able to connect, and yes, I mean, often I'll say Dietitian with a difference is my other more, you know if I'm, if I'm not sure if someone's down with the word weirdo yet, I might use that. But yeah, but definitely, it's cool. So before we like completely get distracted, and jump straight, like into the middle of a conversation, what it might feel like for our listeners, I'd love if you would share with us and I want to hear it too. Hannah and I were having a little brief chat before we talked and I was like, I'm not going to ask you about this because I want to ask you on the podcast, and I don't want you to repeat yourself, or have to feel like you have to repeat yourself. But tell us your story, Hannah. And tell us like what you're up to now. Kind of how you got there. And like what's really, what you're passionate about at the moment. But yeah, I'd love to hear what's brought you to where you are in this moment.

Hannah Turnbull: 3:48

Absolutely. I love a broad question. But then a broad question is always like, what direction do I want to go today I'm telling my story. But with it being kind of in the business and clinician space, I'll really keep my story wrapped around, like the trajectory of the work to where I'm at. And then we'll just see where that goes. But I came to this work as an eating disorder, dietitian by trade to start by having my own eating disorder, surprise, surprise. How can you not in a world that objectifies people's bodies and brings, you bring forward worth with your body? Right? And so that was definitely the start of my interest in dietetics. I was in school to be an accountant because there was part of, there was a rumbling in me that was like, oh, business is cool and, and money and resources. Like I love that. And so when I went to school to start, I was like, I'm going to be an accountant. And then I realised very quickly that sitting behind a desk and looking at spreadsheets is not what I like to do. And I very much delegate that kind of thing now. So it's kind of like this really painful thing in my life brought me purpose. And so as I was drawn to dietetics, because of my own disorder, there was actually parts of learning about nutrition that was really healing for me. And then there was also parts that perpetuated fatphobia and all the things I've internalised through being in this culture. So I kind of hold being a dietitian with like, two different lenses of like, there were really good parts of going through the schooling and getting to do the work I do now, but also still some problematic things that were taught through that process. But the interesting thing for me as I was going through school to become a dietitian, driven by first wanting to, like make people quote unquote, healthier, aka thinner, aka rooted in, like, fat phobia, and then learning more about, you know, weight inclusive care, fat liberation, all the really actual important things that lead to people being well, and so I got to the end of my internship for being a dietitian, I was like, I don't fucking want to do this, I don't want to be a dietitian, I don't want to like, keep perpetuating these problematic ideals and thoughts about food. And that's when I'd like dove face first into a hyper fixation on Christy Harrison's podcast, food Psych and learning everything I could, and just being a sponge, and like soaking it all up and feeling hopeful about what I could actually do with this degree that I no longer wanted. And, you know, I say that from a really privileged place of being able to go to school and get a degree. But at the same time, just feeling conflicted in my values of knowing how painful it is to talk about food and bodies in the way of the the quote, unquote, natural course of dietetics. Right, the one that's rooted in weight loss, and under feeding people and seeing people in larger bodies, 'that's wrong'. So I just found a lot of hope in finding the weight inclusive space. And so when I moved to Denver, I moved from Missouri, which I like to call misery. Sorry, if anybody listening lives there, but you know, I'm talking about just a place that didn't really align with my values and was way too humid and had way too many bugs. So I moved to Denver, Colorado, to be near the mountains in a city for the first time in my life, and just like, figure out who I am and who I want to be in the world. And so I, when I moved out here, I came out here with no job, which was, I mean, as an entrepreneur, always risk taking, and knowing, like, I have worked since I was 13, doing many different jobs, many times multiple jobs, and I was like, I will get a job, even if it's doing something that's not really to my field, like, I can do it. And so I was like, I'm just gonna do it, I'm gonna move out, moved out here and I tried to get a job at a treatment centre, because like, this will be a great place to start. I worked for a hospital in Missouri a yea- ish before I moved out to Denver and realised very quickly did not want to be a clinical dietitian, even though there's a tonne of merit in that, and I had a lot of good experiences, but I wanted to focus on people's relationship with food and body. And so I could not get a job at a treatment centre to save my life. Part of it is probably I was saying how great it'd be to work here until I was ready to do my private practice. I highly recommend not talking about that, if you are trying to get a job at a treatment centre. But I did eventually actually get an offer for a PRN position at a treatment centre out here. And I did not take it because what I realised was one, I was going to burn out in the work that I was trying to build my own private practice, and work at a treatment centre as well. And then two, they were paying me less than an ice cream shop offered to pay me and with tips. So I was like, obviously, I'm gonna go scoop ice cream, because delicious, free ice cream, and a very chill environment. I actually managed a tonne of high schoolers, which had it's fun, and it's eye rolls. But I often got mistaken as a high schooler, which was annoying. I was like, I have a college degree. And I've not been in high school for a while. But overall, it was a good experience. And so I always see not working at the treatment centre actually, as a gift. I used to be a bit insecure about it, because I'm like, oh, people aren't going to take me seriously, people are going to think I don't have the experience or the knowledge. But as we know, there's a lot of problematic themes and systems in treatment centres. And so a part of me is glad that I wasn't influenced by that. And I was able to seek mentorship and supervision from people who aligned with my values in order to do private practice, in a way that felt good to me and felt ethical having no experience outside of my own with eating disorders. And so from there, I was like, Cool treatment centre won't hire me. Cool. I guess I'm gonna build a private practice. That wasn't my first intention. I actually always talk about how when I was sitting in school, we had one lecture on private practice, and I was like, oh my effing god. I'm never doing private practice. I'm not organised enough. I can't do this. Who would want to do this? Who wants this responsibility? Like very much not knowing my Self. And so I always wrote that off for myself until it kind of became that not means to an end. But like, shit I can't get a job at a treatment centre, although I was talking about playing with private practice, you know? So I felt a little bit in a, in an all over place with my thoughts of, do I want treatment centre do I want to be in private practice, I had a blog at the time. And that was kind of a gateway to private practice for me. So I decided to just go for it. I was like, Cool, I'm gonna figure this out. And so I jumped face first, in private practice, it totally made sense to me to be an insurance provider, because that was one of the fears I had was like, will people be able to pay for these services? And will I be able to get enough clients in order to take care of myself. And so it was a no brainer for me in Colorado, knowing we have pretty good nutrition benefits when they're there in different plans that takes the burden off of the clients and allows for them to see me for like, a zero to $20 copay. And so dove face first and figuring out insurance, while figuring out private practice, while scooping ice cream. to fast forward a bit, I hit my year of being in private practice, and I was like, cool, that was great. I'm, I always say I'm a student for life, and everything I do, whether it's hobbies, or actual education, or just learning something new in the entrepreneur space, so I was like, Ha, I wonder what it would be like to hire somebody and to grow a team. And I thought I would just start with one person. So in August 2019, I hired my first person, which was a great experience, ended up not working out with the first person, but I learned a lot about myself, how to not be a leader, and made a tonne of mistakes on like, that I just can't even describe, but I truly believe that's part of it. And part of the learning. And one of the things I talk to people about with being a business coach, and when they're hiring is like the willingness to, like, be in it with your first employee, especially because and like priming them for that. Because it's just, you don't know what you're doing. And there's not a lot of resources out there to help you with what you're doing. And so just the bravery in doing that. And taking that step I always like just applaud people for. But once you rip off the band aid and start with one employee, it only makes sense to grow your team if you want to. And so for me, it was about creating a space where there are different kinds of clinicians where clients could come and be connected with somebody they felt is like their person, like their dietitian for whatever amount of time they needed, you know, there's not one person for each person, but you know, just really having options instead of like a default. So it seems like about every quarter since my first hire, we've added to the team. And part of that is like on the business side, like that made the most sense as far as like getting contracts through insurance contracts, getting people on boarded, getting them built up with their client loads, and like making sure they're really comfortable and feeling good in the work. And so, fast forward to 2022. We are up to nine dietitians currently. And we are hoping to build a team of 13 of us and that's very flexible. And you know, I always balance having these goals and having things that I want to shoot for but without being too rigid, because you know, 13, it is a strategic number. But at the same time, like if it's not the right 13 people being together in our group, it doesn't make any sense. And so we've got a really solid, awesome team of nine people right now who I'm just so grateful for. But to backtrack a little bit, I was probably about six dietitians in when I kind of started getting a little stirring of like, oof, so people are reaching out to me asking how I built a group practice, they're really interested in hiring people. So I kind of fell into being a business coach. And I was like, Alright, this is kind of like business supervision. I supervise my team, I have a couple supervisees outside of my team, like, I can figure this out. And for me, I was just really open, especially with my first couple of business coaching clients, like, Hey, I'm figuring this out for you. It was almost like a re cooping of the experience that I didn't have when I hired my first employee of like, just being so honest of like, I'm figuring this out. Let's figure this out together. I was able to do that in the context of business coaching, when people would come to me and be like, how did you do this? Can you mentor me? Can you coach me? And I'm like, Hey, I don't know how to do this. I can tell you what I've done and I can give you feedback, you know, based on what I see you're doing and ask you if that feels helpful to hear and we're gonna figure this out together and it's a great so I've been business coaching for two ish years now. And from there I've learned a lot. Again, I've learned not what to do or not to help people with quote unquote, like my agenda. And also, I've learned just like how important having somebody who understands you, in such a niche, like the niche of eating disorders, weight inclusive care, going from private practice to group, being an insurance based practice, like, that is so rare for people in our space to find somebody who's like I see you. And I know how hard this is, and I've been through it too, and like, you're doing fucking great. And being able to fill that need has been like, the best part of being a group practice insurance coach. But what I did learn about myself in that experience as well is I needed some more support and leadership, not only leading my own team, but building the future Private Practice Group, practice leaders and supporting them. And so I actually, in August 2021, so last year, about a year ago, I started my master's in organisational leadership. And that has been an absolute game changer. So I'm gonna take a breath. And that is kind of where I am up to date in, in the projects related to group practice, private practice, insurance, leadership.

Laura Jean: 16:19

Lots of things, lots of things going on. But thank you so much for sharing generously of your story. And there's so many pieces where, yeah, I really resonate, I can see some parallels for myself. And some things that I noticed in there, around just I suppose some characteristics or some, some ways of thinking about the world that that that are really often in it for entrepreneurs. So like, I'll just do what I got to do, like, I'll scoop ice cream, I remember when I first started my, my first business back in 2007. And I was like, I'm just gonna do it. And even if I just have to go wait tables, or do something to like, you know, to to top up the money or to keep it going, like, I can figure it out, like you know, and not that everyone has to want to do other things. But I think having that opportunity to be flexible, but also really importantly, covering your financial bases. So you're not in a space of urgency, where it's like, this thing's got to work, and you put so much pressure on the business on yourself. That's something I often talk about when I'm working with humans around their businesses. How can we remove urgency, so one piece from just actually having to pay your bills. But also, one of the biggest things I think can push us out of our values is when we are operating in urgency, when we are pulled out of like being able to ground in like what's important to us and go get pulled in. So I love that you scooped ice cream,

Hannah Turnbull: 17:41

that's for Absolutely. So I have this big thing. Of if you've never worked in the service industry, whether it's food service, or restaurants, or just forward facing, giving food to people, you have not lived. Like, you got to do that you have to see what it's like to be in that fast paced environment to be serving people something so simple, and in a way a basic need, right? Food is a basic need. I just think there's so much grit and interpersonal skills and multitasking, which you know, I'm gonna put an asterix there, because can we actually multitask? I don't know. those skills are all developed in that setting. And I think it transfers over beautifully to entrepreneurship. And the other piece of what you said to of people having that sense of urgency, it's because they aren't able to meet their basic needs, right, if they don't have the resources, they're going to be in a emotionally dysregulated state. And that is actually bad for the business, it's bad for the client that you're trying to treat. If you're in private practice. It's not great for trying to build a team and company culture where you want people to also take care of themselves. It just it just doesn't make any sense. So I appreciate your mentioning of the urgency piece, because I see it a lot. And it makes sense.

Laura Jean: 19:02

Absolutely, yeah. And there's, and it is very much leveraged in the business space, right? Like, I'll teach you how to make eleventy billion dollars in your first month, you know, three months to, you know, to this, which is you know, parallels to the weight and the diet culture space, but it's that whole idea of it's a natural, it's a natural human drive, urgency, you know, restriction, those kinds of things we know. And how do we get exactly what you say? How do we get our nervous system calm enough? How do we, how do we show up grounded enough, for ourselves, but also for the humans we want to share our work with, for the businesses that we want to build, for the world we want to be actually be part of, and how do we do that differently? And yeah, I think the urgency piece is a huge one. So I love that you shared your story about how you like did that because I think sometimes there's that idea of Yeah, I was ready to do it, but nobody's actually doing it like nobody's scooping ice cream, necessarily. Hannah is, hannah was.

Hannah Turnbull: 19:58

I would do it again. I would do it again. And

Laura Jean: 20:00

absolutely, but yeah, the service industry stuff. Yes, I did both service like heaps of that. But also I was a cleaner as well. So that's another. That's another grit - inducing job for sure. One of my cleaning jobs, I was a cleaner for like the university or college residences. That was fun. Well,

Hannah Turnbull: 20:21

yeah, a lot of interesting stuff there.

Laura Jean: 20:23

Yes, yes, yes, very interesting. But we won't digress on a too big of a tangent, something that I know, that you that you mentioned, as you were chatting, when you came into the business coaching space. And you were sort of really talking to, hey, this is me, this is where I'm at this is, I'm learning too. That's not something - One, it's not a value of our profession to to kind of show up in that way of like, you know, I feel like there's that overarching value within our profession and within most health professions, to be the expert to have all the answers. And then also, I think, as individuals, we put that pressure on ourselves. What supported you to show up, I reckon vulnerably would be the word I would use, and honestly, around that, like, what sort of supported you and what? How did that feel different to maybe I feel like you hinted at it, maybe when you did your first hire where perhaps you were trying not to give that impression. So anyway, I'll hand it over to you.

Hannah Turnbull: 21:21

Yes, I'm going to speak to things as an entrepreneur and then as a human, and those are like the two lenses, I really use to pick out all my values, and not even pick them out. But just to have them embodied in those two spaces. So as an entrepreneur, I see a need that needs to be filled. You know, I had multiple people reach out to me, and at this point, I think I've worked with probably over 30 group practice owners who have group practices and are rockin the thing out, but at that time, I was having like, at least one person reached out every, every week, every other week of like, hey, I really need support around this, I don't see any resources. So an entrepreneur brain is like, I love this shit. And I would love to talk about this and get some more resources out there for people with eating disorders who want to use their insurance benefits or want accessible care and want an outpatient provider who gets it. And so it was a no brainer from a business standpoint, because it's also profitable, right? And profit isn't a bad word. It's just, we need money to get resources and take care of ourselves. So no brainer. On the human side, there's nothing I value more than connection and showing up. And so this was an avenue for me to do that, and use a different part of my brain. So you know, in the clinician space, it's very, sometimes emotional, and a lot of being on in a way of caring for people on a really deep level and understanding like attachment and trauma and all the things that they've been through. And I say that's not separate on the business coaching side, either. However, there is a lot more objectivity, and kind of black and white knowledge of here's a nugget of information you need to know, as you're making this decision, boom, boom, boom. And I love having the balance of both of those in the coaching role of like, caring for people who are taking on these big endeavours, building a space where people want to work, and also having their own shit around money. And being a leader, and, but also having the balance of like, sometimes I can just tell you things, and these are your to-dos, versus having to be all emotional. And that was really fun for the left side of my brain. I can't remember which one's logical versus emotional. It's all just wrinkled. It's left, yes. But if it's not, that's okay, too. So yeah, it's really like, both of those pieces that made me want to do I don't know, just like take on this endeavour.

Laura Jean: 24:10

And did it feel different? Or like, what? What made you or pushed you to show up or called you to show I don't know, in that way of like just saying, Hey, I'm learning this, maybe whereas previously, I think you hinted at it that maybe previously, you'd kind of tried to show up, like, I got my shit together. I know all this stuff. What was the difference there? Like, what what was it that made you decide to show up and say, Actually, I'm figuring it out too. And if you want to come along with me on that journey, like, let's do it, but if you want somebody with more experience, I completely get it.

Hannah Turnbull: 24:41

Absolutely. So I think people, when they're looking for a mentor, they want you to be in the trenches with them. Like, I know for me when I was looking for a business coach, and even my therapist, like, I wanted someone who has been through what I've been through and is still in it, you know, it's not a business coach who went and sold their group practice, which is a totally valid thing to do. But for me, you know, I wanted someone who is in it with me and can understand the day to day. And like is a few steps ahead of me. I don't need them to be a lifetime away, because then that's not connecting. It's two different experiences. But when you're kind of the person who is in the trenches, still going through the bullshit, still riding the highs, and you're just a bit farther than someone else, that is the root of connection. There's not a, you don't understand because of XYZ. It's like, oh, no, you understand, and you just did this two years ago, holy shit help me. And I love that I love it's just connecting to be at that more even keel. Rather than having a power dynamic, though there is always a slight one in mentorship.

Laura Jean: 26:00

Yeah, I think I'm like, what, what sounds like to me is it's similar to what we see in clinical practice that benefit of lived experience coming through where you can pull on that, where you can share that. So yeah, he here's all the black and white answers I've got from like, this is the form you need to fill out. This is the knowledge I have that but also just that lived experience of what it felt like what you're going through and to be able to have that shared, like, you know, from from the work of self compassion area, that common humanity.

Hannah Turnbull: 26:30

Common humanity that would describe it in two words, common humanity. Absolutely.

Laura Jean: 26:37

Yeah. And, and so I'm interested,one thing that I'd really love to chat about, or just interested in how it works was, obviously I work with values around business stuff. And something that I often talk about is that we don't need, I mean, have two sets of values if you like, but that I feel like what I have is that values are person specific, not situation specific. So if you're a dietitian in business, the same values, when you show up as Laura at home, it's the same values when you show up as Laura, in your business on the podcast, chatting to Hannah, whatever it might be. Now, that works when you're a solopreneur. Right? When it's just you, you can. so what's the difference? What maybe you want to talk about the process for yourself as you went through hiring, what you ended up doing or what you work with humans around that area now, but how do, how do we find that space? Or how do values coming for anyone who's listening Who thinks, Well, how do I do that in a, I employ people, but it could also even be not just even in a group practice. But just if you want to bring on a contractor somebody to help you edit your podcast, or do other things like how do we use our values as not necessarily a check list, but something embedded in how we go about that? And how do we do it in a way when there's more than one person involved? Like when it's a practice of like nine dietitians, like you said, with maybe aligned but also different and also the business, the group practice being? Yes, you're all connected to it but it's not just one dietitian anymore. It's a whole lot. And yeah, I'm just gonna hand it over to you.

Hannah Turnbull: 28:10

I'm laughing because you're asking a HANA question, which is what my clients who I treat for eating disorders would say, because I always have a stack of questions for them, like, answer this, oh, but also this, and then this, and then this and they're like, come again, and I'm like, Alright, I will break it down for you. But I love it.

Laura Jean: 28:28

So that's sort of like, you know, that's what's that's what's rolling around in my head. And you answer it from what stands out to you from what my little head roll was, my head my noodling process.

Hannah Turnbull: 28:38

Awesome. So values has to be the core of doing any of this, right? Whether it's you're deciding to build a group practice, or you're deciding to bring on an admin or you're wanting to make something bigger than yourself, because this shit is hard. And when it gets hard, you need something to come back to, to ground you. And that's really what values are about. Because if you are driven by money, and power and status, one, those are really painful values to be driven by and two, that is not going to make any of this worth it, because it's fucking hard. And so when I'm thinking about the intersections of values of my own, and then people that I bring on the team and building a group and what we're offering in the community, like they are inextricable, it's not here's Hannah's values, and then here's Nourish Colorado's values. And then here's my team's values. It's in order for this thing to work and us to be a symbiotic unit. We have to be in alignment. And so, you know, when I think about hiring people, because that's really the one of the biggest differences from going from solo to a group is I'm looking for people that not even necessarily align with my values as in you know, my values are being a leader and having adventures and loyalty, but there may be some of those parts that I need from them. Because in a lot of ways I need the symbiotic value of me being a leader is someone who wants to be led, that would be a value I would look for, in someone who wants to join my team, because if they also want to be a leader, you know, there's nuance there, they could be a leader under me, I supervise the team. But also, if they're kind of wanting to be a leader, that's a value. And actually, they want to be in their own private practice, it doesn't make sense to join my team. Because one, we're gonna resent each other, because it's really hard to lead someone who doesn't want to be led. And, um, their flip side, like, they won't be having the experience of having a business. And if that's what they really want to do, they should do that. And so, in that example, there's a bit of a different value, but there's just kind of the yin and the yang there. The values that would be important for hiring better, just overarchingly have to be the same is how we practice dietetics, how we show up as a team, how we treat people, and what we're driven by. And my hopes for people on my team, which I know is true to my current team, is driven by the greater good, and having people live a more peaceful life by reducing their eating disorder behaviours, by helping them heal their relationship with food, by connection and just having a person they can rely on. And those are the things where it has to be a hell yes. Or it's a no, which is something I use a lot in business coaching. It's used a lot in my life with people, whether they're dating or making a big decision. It's like, if it's not a hell yes, it's a no. And so I'm kind of feel like I'm blabbering a bit at this point. But when the questions you asked me, those are the two biggest things that come up of just intersecting values, and then like the same values,

Laura Jean: 31:58

yeah, and I think that's really helpful, like getting clear. And even, it would might look different for different group practice owners is like, which are the areas I want to see values alignment, or, which are the areas where I want our values to be, you know, in the same kind of vicinity. So like, how we show up for the humans, we work with. How we do XYZ, and those other pieces can be can be great. And maybe the areas of like, okay, well, this is a really strong value to me. So this is like a non negotiable, needs to be some sort of alignment on that one value. It doesn't necessarily have to be everything. Yes, not everyone has to be adventurous, like you mentioned, one of your values, but connection, and that being a core driver. Yeah, so I think that's really helpful, too. It doesn't have to be a picture copy of your values. But even just that work of getting clear on Okay, well, what are the values that I want to, to guide the practice by or to guide just the building of the team? And how can that be used as a way to connect you, but also, I imagine to a way to set up like, goals and to set up like, where do we want to take the practice, like by having the values there, it's almost like, I find as an individual, and I wonder if it's similar in the group practice that your goals or your like, your, your, your goal posts, like, I don't think of them as goals myself personally. But you know, that's the that's the language we use. But they almost fall out of it. Like once you've got that clarity around values and alignment. It's like, well, this is really where we've got to go from there.

Hannah Turnbull: 33:29

Absolutely, it provides clarity, right. It's the guiding Northstar, for decision making, for next steps in your business, for how you show up for your team, what your team needs. Like. That's values are like the, just the glue that keeps everything together and keeps it whole and solid.

Laura Jean: 33:49

Absolutely. You're preaching to the choir. I'm so on board with them. I'm curious, have you had an experience, And you don't have to share obviously, either. whjere there, there has been a values disconnect, like how do you know for yourself when that comes up? Is it a? Yeah, how does it show up?

Hannah Turnbull: 34:10

I love that question. I'm, of course going to answer and I appreciate it because we can be driven by our values have clear core values and work to be within them. And then there's factors and situations that come up where it really questions them. And we're not immune to that being values driven people. I know one thing that was really tough, kind of recently, where values were challenged is, so my big thing is being an insurance provider. Like I said in the beginning, it increases access to care. There's no doubt about it. It allows people to see us at a very low rate sometimes and it makes sense from a business standpoint and has allowed me to grow my practice in the capacity that I have so far and continue to do. But during the pandemic and as insurance companies are kind of reassessing their businesses and their profit margins and things like, there were some threats of cuts to our pay, which sent like a huge ripple through my practice of like, holy shit, if this actually happens, we cannot afford to take this insurance anymore. And just the the confusion and values and the the pushing up against a wall with that because on one hand, it's like, yes, of course, we want to take this insurance, there's so many people that use this insurance. And at the same time, I was like, this is going to sink the business, if I want to pay my clinicians a fair rate, and all the things that come with having a group, the expenses, being a leader, paying my leadership team needing to take care of myself, like it wasn't going to be sustainable with this cut. And luckily, the cut happened and then we fought it. And then it got re-upped to where we were. But there was an Oh shit moment of like, this is really challenging my values right now. And it's making me really resentful of insurance. And this thing that I worked so hard to encourage people to take, it's like, wow, yes, when this shit happens, I'm not surprised that people don't take insurance. So that was a really like, tough challenging of values point too. And I think that's a lot of what it comes down to in business, unfortunately, because we live in a capitalistic society. And because money is resources and money allows for opportunity. A lot of the things that push up against values is financially driven. Because I know for me, like, I would love to build a space that any person in any walk of life can walk into and get excellent care. And there is a financial piece that is attached to that. And not everybody has that as a resource. So I can't do that. Because again, business is driven by money. But what I can do is my best towards my values. But they're, they're always challenged. There's always a kind of balancing and reassessing and recalibrating towards values.

Laura Jean: 37:06

Definitely. And it's a good example of how it's that, it's that ongoing conscious effort, like it's the values using your values isn't getting clear on them, sticking them in a drawer somewhere or best case scenario, at least on your wall. And yeah, good, great tick done checklist. But it's that whole idea of our values are the things we act into. So making those choices to figure out how do I act into, in this moment, and in this moment, and when this thing happens, and when this thing changes, and when somebody pushes on my commitment to this need that I have? And how do I still show up in my values and do my best within that, and sometimes not our best, like, that's okay, too, you know, we don't have to do our best every time either. We are humans. And also the big piece too, I find in those moments is how do we not only turn our values, particularly as clinicians working with other humans towards other humans, but also towards ourselves, because we are still important in that, showing up in our values is not just uni directional. Right? And so, yeah, that's a really great example of like, so then then what do we do? And obviously, yes, it probably would have been some hard, I'm glad it worked out. Okay. But glad hard questions, but too, how do you how do you find that balance with showing up in your values when those external circumstances, and we're always straddling both, and it's similar for people working in, you know, working with supporting humans against diet culture, like values is that we're always they're still existing in both worlds. And so how do we do our best in those moments? So how do we find the values alignment that that sits for us? I suppose. So. Thanks for sharing that.

Hannah Turnbull: 38:43

yeah, I think it's important to name that living in alignment with your values, whether it's in general or related to your business isn't, doesn't always fucking feel good. Sometimes it feels really bad. And sometimes it's painful. And my big thing is, any direction you take in something, and in this example, values, if you're going towards the values driven way, or if something is challenging that there's grief, in whatever path you take, you know, there's grief in if you are turned away from your values, and it's like, Fuck, I'm not in alignment with my values. And this decision, like, in a way, using the example that I talked about earlier, like, in a way it is being values driven, even though it doesn't look directly like that in the moment, because the big picture is I need to keep this clinic running, so that we can serve people or there's the values driven way of, yes, we're going to drop this insurance or we're going to keep taking this insurance and we're gonna have to figure out another way to increase profits to make this business run, which has the grief of like another thing to do, or like, Fuck, I had it figured out and now I don't, which I think just comes with entrepreneurship.

Laura Jean: 39:53

Yeah, I think something really important you just kind of, didn't speak directly to, but just really popped out at me there is that acting in our values isn't like I often talk about, you know, we find it in our actions, but it isn't the outcome of the action. So like, you act in your values isn't taking insurance under these circumstances and with these kinds of parameters, taking insurance supports to you to act into your values, but when those external things change, taking insurance, maybe no longer allows you to be aligned with your values. So I think that there's a, there's a real important kind of nuance or like a fine line there of like, sometimes we can see we're acting in our values by the actual outcome, but sometimes the outcome can shift, and we're still acting in our values. So at the moment taking insurance aligns with the values you want to show up with. But if the situation changes, if the paremeter changes, if the commitments are pushed to your values, then that might not be the outcome of acting in your values, right. So that that is a difference there. Whereas sometimes I feel like we, because we're such an output, outcome driven culture, we hang our value on, well, me acting and my values looks like me taking insurance, right? So then what does it say about me when I don't, but you acting in your values is different. It's just in this moment, taking insurance is what that looks like externally. But in the next moment, maybe that's not what it looks like. But you're still aligned internally with your values.

Hannah Turnbull: 41:19

I love that explanation. When you were speaking to it, I was thinking that input output as well as like a plus b will for sure equals c, and this is how it works. And it's like, no, you have to just show up to the present moment and do what you can with your values, knowing that it may not stay there for all these different reasons in context that can be happening.

Laura Jean: 41:39

Yeah, it's not about and I did a podcast episode a few weeks ago, it's like the process is the point showing up in our values isn't the output, it's not taking insurance, showing up in our values is the process the steps we take the decisions we make, how we feel like that embodied sense of Yes, I'm in alignment. And like you said, it's not always comfortable. Being in alignment with our values is easier, but it's not always easy. There's not necessarily this feeling of comfort and ease to it, particularly when we are going against the cultural values and that those kinds of norms for sure. Yeah, so I think that that piece you always also mentioned around, it doesn't always feel good. It doesn't. But it also feels different than how we feel when we act out of values alignment, which also feels really shit. But it's a different kind of discomfort. So there's one that feels like completely unalignment. We've all had those times where we look back, and we think that was so not a values aligned thing to say, or do, we can give ourselves compassion. And I hope we can all bring that for ourselves in those moments. And that feeling is very different than the kind of uncomfortable feeling when we do speak out. And when we do speak up about something or share something or do something that is not comfortable, but is aligned with our values. And there's a difference there. In that felt sense. Absolutely.

Hannah Turnbull: 42:57

It's it's embracing the right kind of hard, right, it's hard to act out of alignment with your values and deal with that. And then sometimes it's hard to do the thing that does ground you because there can still be hard pieces with that.

Laura Jean: 43:15

Yeah. And I'd offer up there rather than us thinking of it as right, but also just the hard that takes us where we want to go.

Hannah Turnbull: 43:22

I love that reframe. I know when I was saying it, I'm like, I know this isn't the word because then it perpetuates right and wrong. But just choosing the heart. Exactly. That takes you where you want to go. Yeah.

Laura Jean: 43:37

I love that. And when you are working with people around the group practice, like, how do you support people to kind of know, I'm kind of jumping, jumping kind of thoughts here, but I'm just thinking, you know, in the work that you do, if people are out there, and they're sort of at those points, those kinds of pressure points, like how do people get that differentiation? Because I was actually working with someone not that long ago who was thinking about it, and we had a conversation and the end point was like, actually, no, they just were feeling pressure to do it. But it wasn't really what they wanted to do. What some good questions or not that have to be good questions. Supportive questions, what kind of process do you take people through in that moment of like, where they're like, on that maybe decision making point of like, do I build into group practice? Or do I stay solo?

Hannah Turnbull: 44:25

Yes, this is one of my favourite questions. Because the undertaking of a group practice is a labour of love, and has a lot a lot a lot of benefits and is amazing thing to do, only if you fucking want to. And so I've had many people reach out to me, where I asked them really hard questions of like, why do you want to do this? Where's your, where's your head at? What would you think if this scenario happened, like, I don't wanna say I try to deter people from doing it, but I try to prepare them or ask them intentional questions based on what I've been through what I see other people who are building group practices go through to see what their tolerance is and what their perspective on it is. And there's a good amount of the time where people are like, I actually don't want to be responsible for people. And I don't want to build something where I may have to be on more at certain times. And I did just want to do this for more money. And I thought this was the only next step I had, like. So we have a lot of big conversations. And that's why for anyone interested in group practice, I always do a free 30 minute call for anyone who wants to get on my calendar. And sometimes it's people are like, Yep, I don't want to do this. Other times, I give people one nugget of wisdom, where they're like, that's all I needed. That's perfect. And for me, it's a bit of a, I don't wanna say a selfish endeavour. But I love connecting with people, and I love hearing their pain points. And I learn from them too. So it feels mutually beneficial to have that space of like, get on my calendar, if you want to talk to me, and I will, I'll start coaching you right now and ask you questions that I think would be helpful for you to explore. But it is, it is tough. And there's a lot of considerations that should go into if you're going to make the leap or not.

Laura Jean: 46:18

Yeah, as you're speaking just then, like, I felt like, it's almost like that parallel of like, you know, in our culture, you know, of like, the steps we take of like getting married, having babies, like, you know, those buy a house, you know, those kinds of cultural steps like in business in entrepreneurship, it's like, start a business like hustle, Bootstrap, and then outsource and then hire people. And then of course, that's the endpoint goal, right? And because I know about myself, like, I don't want a team like, that's not where I'm, I want to go with my business. I'm very clear on that. I know that for myself, and I just feel like, yeah, if unless we can kind of ground back in that for ourselves, or really know that somebody like yourself, who can guide us through those questions get really clear. So anyone listening, who's in that space, jump on a call with Hannah, because she's got that amazing resource there, which sounds great. And I love also, as you're speaking through, which really speaks to your values, and again, doesn't mean everyone has to do this. But for you talking about that call is like, who it's not just, I won't coach you, you know, it's the salesy call thing. Everyone do your calls, how you want to do them, but I like that, you know, because connections, one of your core values that that's okay, if that's what comes out of those sessions, that that's the goal for you for those sessions. That's the values driven purpose of them.

Hannah Turnbull: 47:35

Yes. And I feel like when people are under the pressure of urgency and sales and committing, that is all a distraction from getting to the core of what you actually want to do, or what you need to say, or what you need feedback on. It's like a barrier for people even getting coached. And because I like to function from an abundance mindset, I, there are people that are going to come through and hop on my calendar, and I'll never talk to again, which makes me sad in some ways, because again, I love connection. But the people who are in the brain space that I want them to be in to start this work. And when I say I want them to, I'm going to reframe that a bit, because it's not about me, but it's more of, from what I've learned about myself and other group practice owners, like they're in the mindset where they're ready for that undertaking. And then they commit. And it's like, it's a hell yes for them. And that's exactly what group practice needs to be that decision to go into group practice needs to be a hell yes.

Laura Jean: 48:32

Yeah. And I think that we can find that hell yes in our values, right, and email our knowledge of ourselves. I think it's similar to entrepreneurship, just to jump into that there needs to be a hell yes, I think it's easy to get pulled into it. Unfortunately, in our profession, it's easy for there not to be another option at the moment, there's great there's great practices, because there's so many I think, dietitians, who want to be in really values aligned and driven work, but they don't want to jump into entrepreneurship. So finding a practice a group practice is so I love that that's happening more now. So not everyone has to do their own thing.

Hannah Turnbull: 49:05

Yes, that's what I love, too. And I, you know, one of the biggest fear based thoughts people have when starting your practice is like, Who would want to work for me? Why wouldn't they just work for themselves. And it drives me bananas, because I'm like, people don't want to be business owners. People want to do the clinical work and find so much satisfaction in that and closing their computer at four or five, or whatever time they want to, and go on with their life. Like they love the compartmentalization as much as we can do it when we're empathetic humans, right. They love only having to do the client work. They love getting paid better than they would at a treatment centre. They love the flexibility. They love, you know, when you get big enough, you can offer benefits. I know a big thing for me is taking care of people. So, you know, for my team, we provide health insurance where we pay a good chunk of it and we provide investment accounts where we match and we're starting PTO soon because all of those things are in alignment with values and taking care of our team and loyalty and wanting to keep good people. And so there's so many things you can do, as a group practice to provide for people who want to do the work. Like it's that symbiotic ecosystem. There's not just people don't just want to be in private practice. And I'll tell you, there's a good chunk of people at my practice who had their own out of again, that obligation of this is the next step. I'm supposed to want this. Realising quickly. They're not entrepreneurs, and they just want to do the effing work. So let's create places where people can do amazing work.

Laura Jean: 50:31

Yes, yeah. And it's hard sometimes for us to think that other people don't, because that's how we're framing or that's how we're looking at it. So it's like, well, why wouldn't everyone want it? But not everyone does. And I think, I think the pieces the more that we can have these spaces where dietitians or clinicians can choose like which way they want to go. And there's that choice and that opportunity just to pause and go, Well, do I want to do this or not. And that there's an alternative, because I think the way that the system has run in the past there are almost hasn't been alternatives. It's either do you work in the soul sucking job, or do your own thing. And so the fact that there's amazing clinicians like you who really want to step up into the group practice space, it's not me, and create those spaces, that it's, it's great. It's great for you, and it's great for clinicians, but it's culture changing as well, it creates more choices for our profession, but also just the act of running a group practice by your values and not, you know, not being extractive or exploitive. Paying a wage that actually takes care, allows people to take care of themselves. And considering how we build businesses that are values driven, like sometimes the sschtick entrepreneur space and not spaces I've been in for a long time, but it was always like, you know, outsource to the cheapest person, because the focus is on that, you know, that that extractive that money side of things. And yes, we still have to meet our basic needs. And we live in a world where our needs are commodified. So there is that piece always holding there. And how can we do things in our values? And I think creating spaces I mean, it's culture changing, creating a group practice driven by values where people can come and work and be bringing their whole humanity along.

Hannah Turnbull: 52:14

Absolutely, absolutely. And I know a big thing for me, when I first became a clinic, became a clinician and wanted to, you know, be in the eating disorder space, and all the intersections of social justice and support that people need my, in the back of my mind, it was always like, I became the person that I needed. And I still feel like that to this day of being someone who is in the leadership space, having a team of my own helping other leaders step into their spaces. It's like we are showing people what they are capable of. And it's not like I did this, so you can do it too, in like a manipulative kind of way. But it's like, look at what us as humans are capable of building and growing and like, providing how cool

Laura Jean: 53:04

yeah, it opens people up to the possibilities. And I think that's the great thing. Like it's not a yeah, you I did it so you should or you can and this is my five step blueprint. But these are the options. There's possibilities here. And there's opportunities to do it differently. If that is what your inner weirdo would like.

Hannah Turnbull: 53:22

That's right. Talk to that inner weirdo. What do they want?

Laura Jean: 53:26

That's it. Now, I can't wrap up a conversation with you without at least a nod to the Enneagram. Because is that exactly? Is that how we say it? Enneagram? Graham? Yes, yeah. Cool. And how do you find that through anyone who doesn't know, it's just a way to kind of know yourself right? To get to get clearer or to to maybe even just confirm what you know about yourself? I suppose that's how I think of it. How does that line up with your values? Or how do you use it in concert with your values?

Hannah Turnbull: 53:58

Ah, thank you for asking about the Enneagram as an Enneagram, nerd, I am like, thrilled, and we could probably record a whole nother podcast episode on it, but I'll keep it tight. So the Enneagram is a self compassion tool to understand how we view the world, quote, unquote, why we are the way we are, and to understand things about ourselves. So we can move in the direction we want to be in the world, I'm not going to say so we can be better or whatever. So the Enneagram it's nine different numbers. And you take a test that kind of assesses your childhood wounds and attachment and things through all these different questions, how you view the world, how you move through the world, and you kind of get one core number that really resonates with you. And you can have wings on either side of that number. So I'll use myself as an example. I am an Enneagram, seven through and through, I remember I got my results and I was like holy fuck, like I knew I'm feeling called out right now. And so for a seven, you can either have a six wing or an eight wing, you can't have a wing of another type. But what also is important to know is we have all of the types within us, we just have some that are stronger and kind of help define our core personality based on a lot of our childhood really. So a big thing for sevens is sevens are the enthusiast. So very high energy, very charming, very, very good leaders. Because we can kind of work a room and like get people riled up and excited about things. And we're also adventurers, and we don't like to feel our feelings. And part of that is coming from a childhood where there wasn't a lot of nurture. And you often had to kind of escape in your own minds, you know, having a lot of imaginary friends and just trying to see the bright side of everything and keep things positive. So you don't go into this dark well of feelings. And so when I read about the childhood wound, I was like, Oh, my God, were they watching my childhood, like British parents do not nurture. So I feel very resonant in my number. And I think the most important thing about the Enneagram is, it's not a tool to beat yourself up. It's not to judge yourself. It's not to, quote unquote, make excuses for things. And not taking responsibility for in times compassionately when you need to. But it's more to orient yourself to why we do things the way we do, or parts of why in air quotes, we are the way we are to use them to, again, move towards a more values driven or ways that we want to be in the world. So for example, as a seven, I am prone to run away from responsibility at times of like, oh, man, there's this billing thing I don't want to deal with, let me plan a fun camping trip. And I'll deal with it when I get back. And it's like, actually, no, that impacts the business that impacts other people. And so how do I carve out this time to deal with this? And then right after I can leave and run away to the mountains? And so you know, that reframe of knowing myself, allows for both things to get done.

Laura Jean: 57:03

Yeah, I'm a, I'm a five wing four. So yes...

Hannah Turnbull: 57:09

Are you? I love Enneagram fives, I go to a five when I'm in a good spot. So that's another piece of the Enneagram is we have growth lines of either heart or stress. So as a seven when I'm stressed, I go to a one, which is the perfectionist or the reformer. And so I take on the traits of like being very rigid and critical. But when I am in a good place, I go to being a five, which means I'm really grounded and mindful and like, absorbing knowledge and a little bit more. Just I don't even know the words. I know you see me doing my hands like making a big motion, but just a little bit more understanding the universe rather than like being

Laura Jean: 57:55

Bigger picture thinking. Yeah,

Hannah Turnbull: 57:56

bigger piture. Yes. Bigger point of view. Exactly. It's

Laura Jean: 57:59

interesting. You say that about one because actually, for me, what I found is I for I was often would come up with a one as as a thing, but the more I've learned about my values, and the more I've actually decoupled from cultural values, and really questioned those, I definitely show up consistently as a five now, but there were definitely when I was operating through standard kind of cultural values. The one was what would come up for me, but until I actually started questioning that, and then now Yes, like I said, I feel like a five is much more my nature and who I am. But it's interesting, you say that about how you go from like, when you're operating in certain things? Because yes, if I'm operating by default values, then I would be a one, more a one, for sure,

Hannah Turnbull: 58:43

absolutely. And that makes sense in relation to the Enneagram, too, because I believe so you have a strong four wing, which means you know, you're probably 6040 of those two ish, you know, without assigning too much percentage or value of what makes up you. But I believe fours go to a one in times of heart, like when they are in a good place. So that could be where that one comes from, too. But also ones and fives are often mistyped, because they have a lot of similarities, but it's the thing that really grounds you and your Enneagram is what drives you, versus how you just show up absolutely despise often getting this type. So that makes sense. Yes.

Laura Jean: 59:18

And one of the drivers, obviously for a one is around that kind of, like, rigid, rigid, I'm going to use the word rigidity, but just to like, be a quicker kind of catch all word of like, yeah, like processes and rules and traditions and that kind of thing. And yeah, that's how I tended to operate when I don't actually ground in my own values, you know, and I love and you know what I do? I love the sense of safety, as we all do as humans of having the rules. So there's that piece there, which is interesting. But yeah, sometimes a little bit of one is definitely sprinkled in there. But with the with the ongoing work of decoupling from perfectionism, because I feel like that's, the more I learned about that or less The character, I think less a personality trait and more more. Yeah. Supremacy culture value.

Hannah Turnbull: 1:00:06

Exactly, exactly.

Laura Jean: 1:00:08

Yes. Well, Hannah, this has been such a great conversation. And I'm so glad that we were able to connect and bring it out to the people who have joined us. And my final question that I would like to ask or something just to think about, one of my favourite quotes is, and we talked a little bit about this before we were chatting, we've talked around it, but is that we're planting seeds for a forest, we may never get to spend time in, that. So planting these seeds. And so I would just like to ask you, if you had any seeds, you'd like to plant anything you would like to put out into the world? What kind of forest are you looking to grow?

Hannah Turnbull: 1:00:46

I love a nature based metaphor slash, quote,

Laura Jean: 1:00:51

I stick with me friend, it's pretty much all that comes out of my mouth. It's all about gardens. I'm always like, I'm sorry to bring it back to gardening again, but

Hannah Turnbull: 1:00:58

but no sorry, because I think the seeds I would want to plant right now is, you know, in relation to group practice and values, the sky is the limit in entrepreneurship. And in the private practice space, in the eating disorder space, there is a need, you can build a team, if you want to, you can create a resource in the community that people come to for support. And so what you have to come to listeners is what the F do you want to do. And because you have to really want to do something in order for it to be, quote unquote, successful or to relate to gardens come to fruition. Because if you're doing something that's not values aligned, because you should or because you can, or it will make you more money or XYZ. There's always going to be an emptiness with that. So what do you want to be doing?

Laura Jean: 1:01:57

I like that, yes, I think yes, less motivation. We don't need motivation, when we've got our values, like when we've got them there. Or, you know, I think similarly to when we work with humans in their relationship with food and things where people are used to looking for motivation, that thing outside of themselves, I feel like values is that piece inside ourselves? And if we find that, like you were saying all through the hell yes, that aligns with our values, then we're, we're well on our way. Thank you. And if people want to connect with you further, or if they're interested in booking into those 30 Minute Calls, I'll drop some links in the show notes, of course, but where can people go to, to connect, to be in connection with you?

Hannah Turnbull: 1:02:38

Yes, absolutely. Well, I know we didn't get to talk about this today. But another project that I'm doing that I absolutely love with my co host Morgan Sinclair is we have the weight inclusive innovators podcast. So if you are looking for some free business support and like to listen to to funny, Enneagram sevens, definitely put that in your ears. To keep up with me in particular, you can follow me at my kind of group practice, account for NourishED Colorado on Instagram at Hannah rdn(@hannahrdn). That's where I spend the most time but honestly, I don't spend too much time on social media. I'm trying to improve that in a very intentional and supportive way over at my value driven group Instagram, which is at values driven group(@valuesdrivengroup). And that's the website you can go to to set up a free 30 minute call with me, or drop me an email, whatever feels good to you, whatever you want me to know or hear about your experience in private practice, group practice, or what you're kind of hoping for or wanting, you can visit me over there.

Laura Jean: 1:03:35

Excellent. So all your group practice and Enneagram needs go connect with Hannah, and Morgan who are fun with the chatting about that. I think you've got a few episodes on that as well. So people want to know more, dig in a little bit. But I love I just love that people are offering you know, just different lenses to look through things or different lenses different ways to one connect to ourselves, but also to really get clear on where we want to go. So yes, values and eneagrams, human design, whatever it might be, but knowing ourselves and where we, where we want to be going. Absolutely. Awesome. Thank you so much, Hannah. And thank you to those of you who have joined us for this conversation. Really appreciate your time. Please reach out if you've got questions, comments, and definitely go connect with Hannah, who is a very cool a human, weirdo out there. And I know she doesn't mind me calling her a weirdo

Hannah Turnbull: 1:04:31

love it

Laura Jean: 1:04:32

And until next time, bye for now. Thankyou much for listening. I really appreciate you and the time you've given to me. If you like what you heard, please share it with your dietitian besties and subscribe on your platform of choice. For more like this. Come follow along and continue the Convo on Instagram where I hang out at dietitian values. I'm so grateful for you and the opportunity to connect Have a good one catch you next time on the dietitian values podcast. the dietitian values podcast is recorded on the unceded lands of the Ngambri and Ngunnawal people. I pay my respects to the elders past, present and emerging