Success, values and relationships in business with Natalie Mullins

Today I'm in conversation with Natalie Mullins who, I think, is the epitome of a doing business differently with values leading the way.

Natalie is the Founder and Lead Dietitian of Pod Dietetics, a team of APD’s (based in Adelaide, Australia) providing high quality nutrition care that is weight neutral, trauma informed and neurodiversity affirming.

Join us for this conversation where we chat all things values, turning values in all the directions and grounding in them too. We also chat about:
- challenging the stories that tell us business has to be a certain way
- going against the online business trend
- the pivotal role of relationships in business
- embedding accountability into things, and
- taking business beyond the individual who built it

Such a great conversation and a great example of how when you do business differently, deeply embedded in your values it hits ALL the markers for success, from every angle.

Let's dive in. 

Show notes, links, mentions & transcripts dietitianvalues.com/podcast

Continue the conversation on Instagram @dietitianvalues

Transcript

Laura Jean: 0:11

Hello, hello, and welcome to this week's episode of The dietitian values podcast. And today it's one of the favourite episodes of the month because we have a guest with us. Today we've got Natalie Mullins who is the founder and lead dietitian of pod dietetics, which is based over in Adelaide. And it's a team of accredited practising dietitians who provide high quality nutrition care that's weight neutral, trauma informed, and neurodiversity affirming. And so I'm really excited to have Natalie here on the podcast. we met in August 2022 at the Dietitians Australia conference, and I loved hearing about what Natalie has been up to. And a few people mentioned Natalie's workshop at the event when I mentioned my work, so I thought, hey, let's get on and have a chat. So welcome, Natalie.

Natalie Mullins: 1:24

Thank you. Great to be here.

Laura Jean: 1:26

Thanks for coming on. And so obviously, we had a little bio, the formality bio, but I'd love to hear in your own words. You know, I did say that you're based in Adelaide. So I've given that away already. But where you're at, where you're located, what you're up to, work and business, and yeah, if you just want to do your own kind of l Natalie bio,

Natalie Mullins: 1:48

yeah, where am I at? So yeah, based in Adelaide, on the lands of the Kaurna people, very lucky to live and work here. And in terms of, I guess, where I'm at, from a business perspective, I've had my business in its current form for about a year and a half. So prior to that, I worked mostly in a government hospital based role with SA Health. But with COVID, like many people a lot of things changed in my life and the opportunity came up to do some private practice work. And that just really evolved into launching Pod and leaving my permanent government role in the middle of last year. And it's really just been a big learning curve and a lot of growth since then. So over the past 18 months, pod has grown into a really great team now of five dietitians and a couple of admin staff, as well. And we've got two locations. So one that services, the southern and western suburbs of Adelaide, and then one that services more the central North Eastern suburbs. And as I said, a really great team sort of working in different capacities and with different client groups. And I'm still working in the business as a dietitian, four days a week. And then I have one day a week that's dedicated to building the business and working out where we're going next, and managing all of those kinds of things, which is really nice, really loving that. And we have a really diverse range of clients, which is great as well, it keeps things nice and fresh, lots of different opportunities every day. And yeah, I really liked the balance of it. So I guess that's where we're at, at the moment from a business perspective. And what I'm really excited about is getting to do things like this which is happening a little bit more often now, you know, doing cool things like podcasts and In did a webinar last week, and as you mentioned, sort of starting to do a few presentations and workshops at conferences. So yeah, really excited for that, which is probably the next stage of business and moving into well, moving out of my comfort zone a little bit more into some of those more diverse opportunities, perhaps than just the client based work, which is probably where I've been comfortable so far in my career.

Laura Jean: 4:04

Yeah, it's sort of builds up right, like so you starting out, that's where most of us, pretty much everyone starts out in the face to face client work and just depends where you want to go, or, what comes up? And so you mentioned 18 months was that the very start of of your private practice or had you been doing it for a while before then, what sort of happened?

Unknown: 4:23

Yeah, I've been doing it for a little while before then. So I first started branching out into a bit of private practice back in 2019. I was working full time in my SA health role then with the National Disability Insurance Scheme coming in we were sort of noticing a lot of changes in our services. And it was a little bit challenging sometimes to find community dietitians to refer to particularly I was working with a lot of spinal cord injury clients and brain injury clients at that time. And it wasn't necessarily a big skill set of private practice dietitians in South Australia at that time, and so I sort of thought, oh, maybe I'll give private practice a little bit of go. And I had a contact, which is how often it happens, and they worked at a spinal specific clinic here in Adelaide, and they were actually looking for a dietitian, so I started doing a little bit of that just on weeknights, after work. And on Saturday mornings, which I wouldn't necessarily recommend, particularly not to do for a long period of time, it was quite a lot of hours. But yeah, I just really enjoyed that. And I think then connecting with a few more of those maybe more private practice space circles of dietetics. Because often when you're in the hospital, or the public health system, you kind of engage mostly with people in that system. So I didn't really know that many dietitians working in private practice. But then once I sort of dipped my toe in, I think, you know, doors kind of opened, and I engaged in those networks a little bit more and got some referrals for just increasingly diverse types of clients that I guess were within my skill set, and just really enjoyed it.

Natalie Mullins: 6:02

And so I was doing that up until 2020. And then I was supposed to be going overseas for six months. But like many people COVID kind of gatecrashesd those plans, and I had taken leave without pay from my usual job for those six months, I kind of had this position where I hadn't left to go on the overseas holiday, thank goodness, I hadn't got on the plane yet when we went into lockdown, but I was unemployed. And that was a very strange position to be in. And I thought, well, I've still got this little bit of private practice, maybe I'll do a bit more of that. And so in 2020, I kind of just started building up the private practice a little bit more. And yeah, it just went really well, I guess, and I really enjoyed it. So then last year, 2021 sort of took the plunge into it full time and have gone from there.

Laura Jean: 6:52

Yep, I love all of that. There's so many things in there that you mentioned, that I think is so important. You know, there was that opportunity to to take a bit of time to build the private practice without necessarily feeling the urgency, like you still had your job to go back to, you know, that push to kind of like, gotta make it or break it kind of thing, that piece. And the other piece, which we might circle back to later, too, is around that contact in those relationships and clearly how important they've been in your business. And so you've been doing it for a while, and now full time and then even just in the last, what 12 months, it's been 18 months since you went full time. But like even in that first bit, from doing your own thing to now a team of five dietisiansc which is huge. And it's so great because so many dietitians I think feel like that's such a big scary step to employ people or that it's outside of our scope or wheelhouse. that somebody else, another type of profession would be the lead in the clinic, and we're just in there doing our dietitian stuff. So I love hearing stories of dietitians, like just getting in there and making it happen if you want to, of course, because it's not for everyone, but making opportunities for other dietitians who maybe don't want to have their own business but don't necessarily want to work in the systems that are not so always working in alignment with our values. So, how did that come about, like going from solopreneur, part time in your private practice to five dietitians and admin staff?

Natalie Mullins: 8:36

Yeah, that's a big question. And I think sometimes I don't think about it too much. Because sometimes it feels a bit overwhelming. Even in retrospect, I'm like, Whoa, why? How did that happen? But I think it was a very, it felt like a very natural progression for me. And again, I would touch on the networking and the relationships, I've been exceptionally fortunate, like you said, not to have any external pressure on me, in the sense that I have had the opportunity to really build relationships with a lot of diverse groups of dietitians. And I feel very humbled to have had a number of people reach out to me almost as soon as I started my business and say, Hey, if you want somebody else to work with you, I love what you're doing, I'd be keen to work with you. And that was such an amazing compliment. And I think also, very humbling that people wanted to be a part of what I was trying to create. And I think that does come from, like you said, being very intentional about aligning your business with your values and having a clear idea of where you want to go. So first and foremost, I was very lucky that there were people that actively reached out and said, Hey, we want to be a part of this, which was really cool. And two of those people actually are on my team now. So that was great that not only were they interested but also then when we caught up for coffee and I heard about their experience, I was like, Oh great, the way I'm putting myself out into the world is attracting the kind of people that I really want and need. So that was really cool. And that's how it sort of initially started, was just through catching up with coffee for people or them expressing an interest. And alongside that needs to be obviously the number of patient referrals to actually be able to employ other people. But that was definitely there. You know, I found I was already quite busy. And I think coming from coming the SA Health background and having a lot of strong networks already, there are many of my dietitian colleagues, in that system, looking for community practitioners with a more clinical skill set or clinical experience, particularly from an NDIS perspective. So I see a lot of entral feeders, and a lot of that sort of more acquired disability, which is sometimes a bit more of a specialisation. And so the referrals were certainly there, to enable more staff to come on board. So from there, I guess it just continued to get quite a lot busier. So in the first six months of the business, I hired two more dietitians, both in a part time capacity working two days a week. So that was by sort of December 2021. And then in April, this year, one of them went on maternity leave. And so I needed someone to backfill her. And that was how the next dietitian came on. And then I was needing dietitians with a slightly different skill set in terms of we have a really big enteral feeding client load and that was something that the dietitians I had on my team at that time didn't really have the skills in so then I sort of actively recruited for some people who had more that kind of skill set, again, in a part time capacity. And they started in July of this year. So yeah, it's kind of been progressive. And perhaps in summary, I would say initially, it started being people whosought me out and sought out, a working environment that aligned with their values. And then the next stage this year was more of a business need being identified and recruiting based on that. So I think there's all those different seasons in business, I was listening to your podcasts on that actually, and I think those were two different seasons for me that really early season where I was very humbled for people to be seeking me out and wanting to be a part of it. And then a second season where I was really needing to actively go out and find the people that the business needed, or the clients needed, if that makes sense.

Laura Jean: 12:46

Yeah, absolutely. That really intentional piece. And thank you so much for really mentioning about the overwhelm that can come up, even now, because I think it's really easy for us to look at somebody, for another dietitian to look at you- Oh, wow, look at Natalie, she's got a private practice. And she's employing five dietitians, and admin, and to think she's got it all together, you know. well, you probably do have it together much more than you think. And I think most dietitians have it together much more than they give themselves credit for. I think what's really helpful with that is just to know that those feelings, like I often talk about this, it's not about getting rid of the feelings of say being overwhelmed, or a bit scared or whatever, but it's taking care of ourselves, you know, it's knowing what you want to do. It's knowing where you want to go. And like you said, making those intentional choices, or even at the start just making those relationships and seeing where those alignments are with your values. So it's just so helpful. Because I really do feel like we often look at somebody who's got their own business, or particularly got staff and think, well, she's really got that going on, like, wow, you know, but to know that yet it still feels some sort of way for you or me, but you're still doing it because it's where you want to go and it aligns with the work you want to do.

Natalie Mullins: 13:56

Exactly. And I think a lot that bit that you said, there, you're still doing it. And I think that's it, you know. it's almost like if I stop and think on it too much, it will be too much. But it's just really that sort of that trust and faith in the process. And in myself and in that what we're working, and not just myself but also now the team that I have around me, is that what we're doing is a good thing. And like you said, those kind of next steps do make themselves clear as you go, you just kind of have to be willing to sort of make mistakes along the way. That's the other thing, it certainly hasn't been perfect and smooth. But I think as long as you're willing to just like give it a go and not get overwhelmed by that need for perfection that sometimes as dietitians we can have., if you're willing to just muddle along, and you know where you're heading you can get there..

Laura Jean: 14:53

Yeah, and I think to what something you just hinted at there, getting outside of our own head sometimes, because like you said even now thinking about, getting up in your head about it,can still feel overwhelming. But when you actually step back down into your body into the practice, like these are the steps, this is where I'm moving towards and keep that focus there in your values and in that trust in yourself, then while it doesn't make the overwhelm go away, it doesn't make any of that stuff go away, it allows you to have that close connection with where you are going and what kind of steps you want to take next.

Natalie Mullins: 15:27

Yeah, absolutely.

Laura Jean: 15:30

And so let's talk values, because I think that's a really huge thing. When I was at the conference, and I was having conversations with people about my work with people around their business, their values, and they were like, oh, have you met Natalie, because that is obviously something that came up really strongly when you were talking about your business. And that's what people kind of really identified for you. So good to know for yourself that that's really clear, that's really out there that that is something that is part of your business, your, quote, unquote, brand, and also the kind of team and business. So let's talk values. I mean, firstly, I'm going to chuck you several kinds of thought nuggets, and you can take it where you want, but like, there's your values as a solopreneur. And then there's that transition into a team. So that's really interesting. That can sometimes be different, or sometimes can be the same values, and then you just find people that match your values. And then yeah, maybe how that has shifted as you've grown, and how your values supported you or what role they played for you.

Natalie Mullins: 16:35

there's a lot there. So I'll try and remember, I'm trying to remember them all and come back to our

Laura Jean: 16:39

It can be a conceptual question, it doesn't have to be answered linearly, you don't have to tick off the list, But it's just more that concept of like, how that lands and how that feels to you as far as when you're implementing or what's happened over your business.

Natalie Mullins: 16:51

Absolutely. And kind of get a sort of pictorial of different layers of values. You know, like you said, we kind of have our values as individuals, which are obviously going to be different between myself and my team, but you'd hope at their core, they're consistent and congruent. And then you've got the outward facing values of the business, you know, what our clients and customers see which again, you want congruence, but they don't necessarily have to all be exactly the same. And then you've got our values that we hold as a team. And I think there are different layers to them, and you want to see that congruence between them all, but how then you might actually utilise them or work them out might look different for everyone. So I guess starting with me, I'd had to separate my personal values from the business values, I think, because at this point, it's still probably a touch too early. But I'd say first and foremost, would be our value of respect, which is our tagline'respectful nutrition care for everybody'. And that value of respecting everybody's lived experience as it is respecting their body, the diversity of their brain, the diversity of their function, all of those kinds of things, and really coming from a place of respect. And I think alongside that is unconditional positive regard, you know, we're going to believe that people are telling us what is true for them, that their lived experience is valid. And we're really coming from a place of positive regard and respect, first and foremost. And I think that comes into our interactions when we're working with a client one to one, when we're interacting with our colleagues, when we're interacting with potential customers, all of those kinds of things is we need to respect where people are coming from, even if we don't necessarily agree with them. And I think we need to honour that. And then following on from that is probably for for business. But also, when I think back to why I started the business and what was important, the second core value is accessibility. So making sure that our spaces and our services are accessible in lots of different ways. So what does that look like from a business sense? Well, all of our physical spaces are fully accessible in terms of, you know, ramping, accessible bathrooms, options for people who maybe have a hearing or vision impairment, accessible spaces in terms of being trauma informed. So we work really hard to create a non clinical space that has artwork and is neutral in terms of scents and colours and things like that. accessibility in terms of the information that we provide, so making sure we have multiple ways to provide information both to our clients and to customers or the general public who might be accessing us. And then accessibility in terms of pricing as well, which can sometimes be a difficult one from a business perspective, but making sure that you know, we do differentiate between things like concession pricing that we do offer, while they're a small amount of our offering. There is still a bulk billing opportunity there, and those types of things, which I think can be worked into a business model if you're thoughtful about them. So really making sure that accessibility is not just having a ramp at the front door, it's actually thinking about the many different types of accessibility. And flowing on to that being the business owner, I suppose is also accessibility for staff is really important to me. So making sure that we have accessibility in terms of flexible working arrangements, flexibility in terms of timing of appointments to fit in with the rest of their lives, and making things for staff really accessible also, because I guess one of my hopes and goals for the business is that we will be able to employ a diverse range of dietitians and people in our admin team. And so that means accessibility has to be a value for not only our customers, but also for our staff. And then probably the third core one is sort of about the way we practice. So in terms of using a Health at Every Size, non diet, weight neutral, trauma informed, neurodiversity affirming, you know, there's lots of buzz word, tag lines that I used there. And while I guess there can be challenges, using those as labels, I do put that as a value, because we're really not using as a label, it does need to, again, filter down through every level of the business. And that looks like making sure that things like our professional development is aligned with those kind of frameworks that we have. And maybe a better way to actually phrase this now that I'm thinking about it is probably social justice is a core value. And there are a lot of those frameworks that we know speak to the social justice aspect of health care. And so I think that's a really core value that we hold. And again, when I think about my goals and hopes for the business, I do hope that one day in the future, there can be more of a practical social justice aspect, you know, things like a community garden is something I would love to have, be a hub for Food Bank to have food available, things like that. So probably social justice, I would say as the third core value there, incorporating both some of those real practical frameworks in our work as dietitians, but also thinking about how we engage with the broader community, as a business as well. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna start with those three, because I think they're the core and I feel like I've already talked a lot about them.

Laura Jean: 22:29

No, I love it, Natalie, and particularly, what's really refreshing to me and just feels like 'Yes, exactly' is how you're really thinking about the values and, and not just thinking, but embedding them through all those different ways. So yes, outward facing to the humans that you're serving directly, like working with, but also outward facing into the community, and then inward facing to the staff, to yourself, and creating that. So it's not just, you used the word buzzwords, and that whole buzzword lips speak way of values being used. So, these are our values of respect, and it goes further than 'we respect the clients, the humans we work with, but the staff aren't treated with respect. And so it's that whole layering, as you mentioned, and I think often people feel like, when there is layering, when there's that kind of looking at it from those points, that the thing that's going to come up is disconnect. But what it sounds like to me and it rings true in my experience in practice, but also what it sounds like in your business is that actually it's the opposite. It creates congruence by actually having those different layers and having the same value pointing in all those directions, it creates a congruent business and creates that real true values alignment versus there being some sort of disconnect. People expect if you're trying to be respectful to staff or respectful to the humans you work with, that they can't kind of coexist. What's your experience around that?

Natalie Mullins: 23:48

Yeah, absolutely. I think that I love what you said there, and it kind of captured the thought that was coming into my brain is that people sometimes think that they can't coexist. And I don't know where that thought comes from. But I think people have this idea that maybe you can't run a successful or financially viable business, if you are giving your staff flexibility, accommodations for whatever their needs might be, respecting that they come with their own stuff, and you know, working with that, and then how can you possibly provide that to your clients? But I don't know, I guess that I can't really speak to that, because I don't really understand that perspective, I think because my experience has been so vastly different. And I guess my perspective is if that if you are investing in staff in that way, then they are likely to invest in clients in that way. And I see that when I think about it. because really within pod I have two roles, right? So I have my role with the dietitians, but then I also have my role as the manager of the business. And so If I think about me in the role as the manager of the business, my job is to invest in the staff and treat them as is aligning with the values of our business. And they are then going to look after our clients. And so if I invest in them, they will look after the business, hopefully, in the way that I would look after the business when I'm in that client role. So yeah, I guess for me, I can only see congruence there. I think it's that classic idea of, you know, treat others as you wish to be treated. And I just think if probably speaks to that authenticity as well, if you're going to be one way, in one scenario, then for me, it should be the same in all scenarios, you know, I think that's certainly a value that I hold very much is that I think, you know, with me, what you see is what you get, and I'm going to be consistent in pretty much every environment, I would say, sometimes, perhaps to a detriment, I don't know.

Laura Jean: 25:56

well, maybe at that cultural, social expectations level, but probably not as far as in relationships, and in building your values aligned definition of success in your life. What it feels, to me, as you're explaining your business and talking about what's happening is, it's just a really great example of, we have this story, there's this cultural story, social story, business rhetoric, around how you have to do business to be, quote, unquote, successful. And I talk a lot about it, a lot about that you can do both. And here you are an absolute real life example of Yes, absolutely. And in fact, it's like the opposite is true, because when we see examples of businesses, clinics, where they aren't, where those values aren't embedded across all the layers, we see dietitians getting burnt out, we see unsustainable financial business models, and you know, somebody's bearing the cost of that, right. Whereas what you're sharing with us is your model, where you are actually embedding the values, where you're turning them towards yourself, to the staff, to the humans you work with, to the community, back in to the business itself, and the business back to you like it's at every layer, it's turning in each direction. And it's creating not only an amazing space, where people are like, you know, calling you on the phone and say, Natalie, please let me come work here. But also, you're growing, it's successful, as far as that point of view, by every metric, if we just wanted to look at numbers, and those output and outcomes, it is successful. And most importantly it's clearly successful and aligned, it's successful in the term that it's aligned with who you want to be and how you want to show up as a dietitian and a business owner as well. So it's, in every sense, if we could look at any definition of success, like any angle for the definition of success, because the definition is yours and yours alone. But any angle to define it by, it's successful, because you're clear on your values, and you're putting them in place, which, you know, almost like somebody's convinced us that we can't do it that way for some sort of benefit. But in fact, when you do do it that way, that's real success, real sustainable success.

Natalie Mullins: 28:09

Yeah, absolutely. And I think you're exactly right. As to some of those cultural or social stories that often we have have internalised you know, and we have ingrained in us and they impact the way that we see the world and what we think we can do. And I think just touching on that, you know, I'm very fortunate that from my family and from the upbringing that I've had, and the very close relationships in my life, that those have not been the stories that I have internalised. And I think that's a really key part to achieving that success that you mentioned, is not feeling or not being narrowed down by some of those stories. Because I think like you said, you know, we do get to write our own story. As cheesy as that kind of does sound. It is true, but it does take sort of recognition of that those cultural and social stories exist, but a willingness to step outside them, I guess, and try something slightly different, perhaps.

Laura Jean: 29:13

Absolutely. And I think that's where values come in. And it feels like that comes through in your stories that when you have your values as the point that's directing you, there's almost no option but to do it in that way. So that the standard story, the standard cultural programming, the standard way that the system, particularly for us, as health professionals, we've come through a certain type of way or systems, you know, quote, unquote, supposed to work, that just becomes untenable. And it's that kind of like rub point of, if you know that there's no option, when we have our values front of mind when we're really clear on them, there's almost no option but to act them out, to show up in them. even if it does push us beyond our comfort zone, push us into spaces where the stories we've heard are telling us that it's not going to work, that it's not going to get there. And to come back to what you said before, that doesn't necessarily go away, you do have those feelings of overwhelm, but you just keep going. You just kind of keep making the decisions that take you closer to your values.

Natalie Mullins: 30:12

Yeah, yeah, totally. That's exactly right.

Laura Jean: 30:15

Almost like I paid you, Natalie to, to confirm everything that I talk about.

Natalie Mullins: 30:22

You didn't even it's a very good fit. I agree.

Laura Jean: 30:26

I love it. And let's chat a little bit about relationships and that collaboration, because a couple of things that stand out to me that you're sharing. Well, one is that right now you're building an in person business in a culture, in a climate in a culture where everyone's jumping online. So that's a piece, how do you how does that work for you? You don't you have an online arm for your business is there?

Natalie Mullins: 30:53

No. I mean we offer telehealth, which again, is aligned with our value of accessibility. Because we do support people living in regional South Australia, we support people with various disabilities and challenges with transport or, spoons and capacity that might be limited day to day. So our only online offering is telehealth and a social media presence, which is not my strong point. And it's interesting you asked this question, because it's one that often when I'm talking to people about my business, they're often like, 'Oh, what are you going to do online? What's your online offering going to be' when are you going to create a, I don't know, see I'm not particularly ofay with it. But whether it's like a masterclass or something or podcasts, like these webinars, all of those kinds of things, which are probably not my comfort zone. But yeah. So sorry, you were asking before that when you asked whether we had an online presence, I think your question was about sort of that one to one person focused service and the relationships and how that has been of benefit?

Laura Jean: 32:04

Well, yeah, yeah, let's get to that. But let's stay with what you're talking about. Because I think that's really important to really emphasise to people is that you can have a successful business, you can have a viable business without being online. Because I feel like, again, like all those stories we were just talking about, there's almost this story now that to have a business has to be online. Now. My business is 100% online. I love doing it. And I've also had in person businesses in the past. but I love that you are doing it your way, it's a great example that, yes, that story that it all has to be online, or you have to have something online or an online presence. It doesn't stack up.

Natalie Mullins: 32:41

Yeah, yeah, I think so. And I think there's definitely pros and cons. You know, we certainly saw that online, particularly during COVID has been amazing, and has created so many opportunities. And I think that's great. And I feel really grateful that there are so many people out there in the world that are interested and invested and skillful in that space. And I also recognise that's probably not me. You know, I really love doing this kind of thing, it's fantastic and speaking, but I don't know that it's my zone of genius working in that online space. And so I think, while I've recognised that probably for our business to be accessible, it's probably the key value I keep coming back here, that I do need to have basic things. like we have a website, a Facebook page, and Instagram, we are active on those things, but sort of in a boundaried way, I would say. So I guess what I have tried to find is a way that I can recognise Yeah, that's not really my zone of genius, that's not where my time is going to be best spent, and, I do need to spend some time there because it is the world that we live in. So I need to spend enough time there that the business at least has a presence there. And people if they're looking for our business or looking for our services, then I believe they need to be able to find us in those places. Because we know that a lot of the community is in those places, a lot of community and services are found via Instagram, probably more so than Facebook these days, or via online internet searching. So I would say that's probably been something that I've been finding a balance between what I feel the business needs versus what I'm personally capable of. And trying to find a way of meeting that, but it is certainly a boundary that I need to regularly remind myself of when I feel that pressure of like, Oh, should I be doing more on social media. At the moment, I try to post something every one to two weeks. And that feels really challenging and hard for me. And I often feel then you know, get caught up in that pressure of feeling like I need to do more and just coming back to remembering why I've put that boundary there because it's not necessarily an investment of my time and energy that is actually going to bring a big return. in relationships. So, for me, I would rather spend my time and energy, you know, connecting with people in my network or engaging, I'd much rather walk into a business and say hello to them in personthen I would put some kind of offer or something on social media, because that's just where I'm at. But I guess what I want longer term is that if people do join our team in the business, and the business needs something different, I also don't want it to be limited by me, which is why I guess I've sort of set up a structure where at least that presence exists. But I also recognise I'm not the right person necessarily to take that aspect of the business forward. And at some point, I hope the business does grow to a point where we can perhaps expand that offering, if somebody comes in who's you know, value are aligned, that is their passion, that's their zone of genius. And then I hope I can hand it over to them. And you know, they can make it great. If that makes sense,

Laura Jean: 36:19

absolutely. 100%. And there's real, what comes through to me, is a real clarity around your values. So that this is why you are there because of that accessibility because of those reasons. And your commitment to that keeps you there. But also your commitment to that, you're grounding back in that commitment into that value reminds you of where the limit is for you, or where the edge is, in this moment of your business in this season. And so yes, being on social media, because that value of accessibility is there. And because of that value, grounding back in that value reminds you what you're up to where you're at, as opposed to getting pulled into those other stories, ike I have to have a social media or I have to do a post a day, or whatever it might be. It sounds to me like your processes, your grounding back in that value over and over again, to remind yourself, why you are on social media, too, that keeps you going. But also why you're on social media. So it stops you from getting carried away.

Natalie Mullins: 37:14

Yes, yeah, that's exactly right. It's just continually coming to that, why and what's the intention of doing this? And like, I love how you put it there that does goes both ways. It's like, why am I here and continuing to work on this thing that feels so hard, and takes up more of my time than other things that feel easier for me? But also, why then do I keep that boundary in place when other businesses perhaps are doing so much more or I might perceive that they're doing it so much better. Or any of those things which always come up. And you know, we question our own ability and whether we're doing the right thing. And you know, we're always questioning? Do I need to do more of that? All of those things?

Laura Jean: 37:57

Yeah, we're human. And this is just, seriously Natalie it's like I paid you, because it's a perfect example of how our values can do both-direct us where we want to go, but also direct us where our boundaries are and our commitments to ourselves. And that's what it looks like in action. And even when we do, maybe get a little bit of comparisonitis in there, or we're looking over the fence at what somebody else is doing and thinking 'Oh, should I should I' it's coming back to those values and going, this is why we're there. This is what we're up to, and being really clear on that. So I love it. Like, yeah, it's great, it shows. And I really hope for the people that are joining us in our conversation, you know, third party, not third wheel, third party, you're still here, still in it, that they can really hear just how much values can be such a tool. Like it's not esoteric or abstract, like these things over here. And I think the tricky part of that, for a lot of us having gone through health systems is that often what values are in those spaces, they're just on a website, they're in a glossy brochure and it doesn't actually play out to the staff to the humans we work with to the wider community. And so sometimes to hear an example like yours, and to hear somebody really just sharing how one that clarity around values and the role it plays in the business and how much that it brings. Not necessarily easy, it doesn't make running a business easy, but there is that sense of ease, you know, around making decisions, around knowing where you're going by having your values and making decisions through those.

Natalie Mullins: 39:34

Yeah, totally. I think you're right. it doesn't necessarily give you a sense of ease but what I think it gives you is a sense of security, like there's a real sense of, if I can come back to my values each time and my purpose each time and my intention each time, then you know that you can move forward confident that the decision you've made is the right one. It really gives that sense of security because it, it's a foundation from which to build other things on. And so I think that that's the key for me is it's not necessarily about ease. It's about security and assurity,

Laura Jean: 40:12

Yeah a space, I often think of values as, and I'm sure I've talked about it as well, It's like a space to ground in. it's a place to come back to, and that grounding in for yourself and for your team and for the direction of the business. So, yes, absolutely. So yes, so you can in 2022 build a completely in person business, you don't have to go online, if that's not your wheelhouse. And I think that's really refreshing to hear, because it's not for everyone. And it's not, like you said, it's not everyone's zone of genius and you don't have to, you can do what works for you and your values and that commitment to those values. So thank you for being an example of that, Natalie, for people who need to see. So let's talk relationships. Because I'm always banging on about relationships, because I think everything happens in relationship, everything happens in relating, but as far as something that's, you know, the role it's played in your business, is there anything that you would like to highlight around that? Or is there anything that you notice or reflect back on about relationships and relating, collaborating and how that's supported your business?

Natalie Mullins: 41:18

Yeah, I think relationships for me, have been the making of my business, I would say, and I think they can be make or break. But for me, they have been the making of Pod dietetics, as it is, and I think first and foremost, that starts with the relationships personally, I would say my husband, first and foremost, that relationship has been the most important. not that everybody has to be married to do a business or anything like that. But I think that's important for me to recognise that I wouldn't be here where I am without that relationship, first and foremost. And from that, then the relationship with my family, and I just say that because of purely just from a support perspective, like, I think you can set up a business alone. But my goodness, it would be so so hard, and I definitely couldn't have done it without those relationships. First and foremost, I think getting your own personal cheerleaders and support team is kind of just such an important place to start. But then, in terms of how the business has actually flourished from a relationship perspective. I think it's really about what relationships do you have in the community? And what networks can you utilise, to be able to guide what your business needs to be, you know, if we're talking about what gaps are there in the market, or what is the need, that you are trying to meet for the community, really, that starts through relationships and talking to people, you know, that seed of an idea has to have come from somewhere. And I think most of the time it does come from being in relationship with people whether that is like for me, it was a combination of being in relationship with my patients that I used to work with in my previous role, but also being in relationship with my colleagues who I noticed were experiencing the same challenges I was having when wanting to discharge people out to the community. That's really where that gap was identified in relationship with patients in conversation with patients and talking to them about what do you need? How are we going to problem solve for you when you move on from my care? And then alongside that conversations with my colleagues, you know, how are you guys finding this process? We work a lot with the NDIS. How are you guys finding the NDIS? What are the sticking points, what are the pain points, all of those kinds of things. And from those relationships, I would say is where the idea and the purpose for Pod was born. As well as then alongside that and kind of happening in very parallel processes, because I think there's a lot of things that will come together to start a business, would be relationships with some of those private practice colleagues. So you know, those that were introducing me to concepts like Health at Every Size, a non diet approach, trauma informed care, the term neuro divergence and neuro diversity affirming. All of those learnings came from being in relationship with people and the fact that those relationships were strong enough that then they could give me recommendations for courses to do or point me in the directions of books to read and podcast to listen to, you know, all of that comes from really word of mouth. And it becomes quite hard in retrospect, to untangle all those threads. But I know where they all lead is just to a big group of really amazing people that I have been so so lucky to have been supported by and mentored by and encouraged by that's the really important thing as well, because in those relationships when you're having these conversations, I have found overwhelmingly that people have been encouraging and have said, Yeah, this is a problem that needs to be solved and when I've maybe tentatively put forward the idea that perhaps I could be part of the solution, overwhelmingly, people have been encouraging. So I think for like relationships for me, like I said, have made Pod what it is, and that has extended to those people that engage with me over the past, what has it been, three or four years, are now people who refer clients to our practice, who I've now been able to introduce to the dietitians in my team and build relationships for them that aren't reliant on me and that are separate. And they are people that then you know, the word of mouth about the business spreads. So I certainly would not have been successful without all of those people and that comes all the way from the very beginning. So like I said, my colleagues in SA Health and my patients in SA Health, and then how that's grown into people in private practice, interstate people that I connect with at conferences, like you, getting these opportunities, but it doesn't happen if you don't have relationships with people, because people need to be given the opportunity to see who you are and what you're about. And then I guess you just hope that what you're putting out there is something other people want to hear about or are interested in, or inspired by, or whatever it might be. Yeah, I could probably talk about it forever. But I'll wrap it there.

Laura Jean: 46:16

Well, I think to like, just that last bit you mentioned, it's like when you are in relationship, because a relationship is a reciprocal, usually situation you're listening as well. So you actually hearing and listening around the edges for that. So that's really important. And another thing you mentioned, as you're chatting was how it would be hard to disconnect it to untangle it all. And I think that is actually the point to me of the relating, is that it's not about, you know, well, I'm going to reach out to Natalie and have her on my podcast, because then it's going to lead to xyz, but it's more like, Hey, you see somebody doing something or you see somebody that you like, maybe you feel avalues alignment, it's like, let's relate, let's connect with the purpose of relating. And what ends up often happening is things come from those, but that's not the point. The point is, to me, it's coming to that, particularly when you use your values as the jumping off point, I suppose for relating is, we don't have to compartmentalise our relationships that they can be, your people who started out perhaps as mentors, then become colleagues and then become referral agencies, but they're still mentors, and they're still colleagues, and they're still possibly people you go for Friday drinks with. And it's it's both, it's not that compartmentalising like, I think again, in the traditional kind of business, or particularly online, there's that real idea of connect with this person to collaborate or build that referral, like people aren't in those little boxes or silos. the beauty of those relationships, and fostering those relationships is, even if there was no quote, unquote, you know, benefit, is really just the richness it brings to your life and that alignment with people and that feeling of connection and support. And those cheerleaders, like you mentioned, and through relationships I think it's one of the biggest tools for a business one just for our own personal support, but also just for all of the possibilities that opens up really.

Natalie Mullins: 48:14

Yeah, absolutely. And the thought that came into my mind, like, as you're talking was, that relationship can be the end point, there doesn't have to be a relationship for this or relationship for that, it can just be that you come into relationship with so many diverse people. And like you said, you just gain so much just from the richness of that experience that it doesn't have to be transactional, or you don't have to be, you know, seeking something from it, you'll get something from it anyway. Absolutely.

Laura Jean: 48:45

That's it, the relationship is the point, having your values, that's the point, like the process is the point. And the outcomes are the byproduct to me of the process of building relationships, the process of living your values aligned to life, creating your values aligned business. That's the point. And the outcomes that do happen, because they do happen, that's like, the secondary benefits, the icing on the cake almost. And what I feel like and what you've shared feels like a really great example of that - when you're focusing on the process, the next step, the relationships, the going for the coffee with people that have reached out and things, the outcome almost just falls out of that, you know, then it's like, Oh, I've got this position. Well, I'll call up so and so because we just had coffee you know, so it's the outcomes just come.

Natalie Mullins: 49:34

yeah, absolutely. If you invest in those relationships, the outcomes will come and I think the key thing to me, and it's a big tenant of my approach. I will always remember when I first heard it, in motivational interviewing training, with Tara McGregor and she talked about offering reflections as opposed to offering a question because a question you always have to have an inkling of the answer in mind. Whereas the reflection you have no idea where that's gonna go, you're just reflecting what you're hearing. And that comes to that listening piece of a relationship. And I think that for me also sums this up is when you invest in the relationship, you can't know what that person possibly may offer you down the track. And if you go into it with a particular outcome in mind, you may end up disappointed and miss out on so much richness that if you just went into it of being this is a really cool person, I want to get to know them. And you listen and you reflect back like, you never know what's going to happen, what's the gem that's going to come from that, I suppose.

Laura Jean: 50:33

Absolutely. And I think that applies when we're working with humans sitting in front of us, how can we relate versus how can we get them to do the thing we think we should get them to do? To colleagues, to anyone, it's that whole idea to go into it with your values front of front of mind so that when you are relating that's the thing you're getting out of it. And I really feel that too. And often when I'm doing a podcast interview, I'm like, I'm not much of an interviewer I don't often ask questions, but it is really that thing of when you share a thing, I hear a thread or a thing that aligns with something that I believe or that I hold to be true. And so then I often do just reflect that back, which then brings something that you hear and what I've shared, which connects a dot for you, but also brings that cohesiveness. So I love that you brought that in, because it really feels like that when you are in conversation and connection and relating the process is the point versus, you know, me just shooting rapid fire questions at you. Answer these questions quickly, Natalie for the next five minutes, those actual literal rapid fire questions they often have on a podcast? I don't. They're not my bag.

Natalie Mullins: 51:37

Totally. No, I totally agree. And you never know where the conversation is going. And it can be great without that.

Laura Jean: 51:44

Yes, and it just allows it to go in those directions. Another thing too, that I loved, that you shared over this time. And I wonder if there's been any examples for you, but it feels like a lot of the people you've been in relationship with have just made the ask, have have just asked a thing of you? And often the answer is yes. Or it's come from there eventually. What about for you? Have there been any situations or stuff acroos your business where you've just asked, where things have come because you've just asked, you've just made the ask?

Natalie Mullins: 52:11

yeah, totally. I think it's hard to be in business, if you're not brave enough to sometimes just ask. And I think for me, probably the thing that comes to my mind most quickly is like just asking for help. That's probably a big one. And that's something that has, I have needed to be prompted to do a few times and the learning has been that when you ask, people often do return it. And I guess when I turn that back in on myself, like you said, a lot of the greatest things in my business, like a lot of my team has been built on just making the ask whether that was first people asking me, and then in that kind of second phase, it was me asking others and I think again, seeing both sides of that fence, I'm like, Yeah, well, if someone asked me this type of question, I'd say yes, I'd be really keen. So why am I expecting that they would say no. It kind of comes from us maybe not believing we're worthy of engaging with perhaps and so, yeah, I can't think of any necessarily, oh, actually, probably one example that I can think of, is that something that I decided to set up because I've got a bit of an advisory group for the business. And that has people that are connected with me through relationships in sort of more my personal life, but they have relevant professional skills. So they're a group that I really trust, but also have great professional skills. You know, one of them's an accountant, one of them is really high up in sales and marketing. One of them is an environmental scientist, so he has a really an eye for that more social justice aspect of things. And that was something that I was very nervous about asking them, but I did, I just contacted them and said, Look, I'm thinking about putting this kind of advisory group in place for my business and I thought that you have these skills, and also that I really trust you as a person, we have that relationship, because that's important being early in business, you need people that you can trust, because they're going to see you at your best and your worst. And so yeah, they all said yes, and that has been something which I think again, is just been a huge piece in the successfulness of Pod is that we meet once a quarter. And what I've found so helpful is they give me a sense of accountability that kind of isn't necessarily present in other areas of my business. You know, I think from a dietetics clinical work perspective, obviously we're accountable to our clients and that's straightforward but sometimes in a business from a financial, from a marketing, from environmental, from a burnout perspective, we need people that we're accountable to and sometimes that can be a great supervisor, but not always. I think as a supervisor you're not necessarily coming from a business perspective, you know, might be a business coach, a business mentor. But I guess that's the function that this group has served for me. So that's probably one example where I just did ask because I thought this feels like something that I need, but I wasn't really sure what it would be. But it turned out then one of the people that I asked had just done the board directors course and was actually 'Yeah great. I'm just starting to dip my toe into that it'd be super helpful for me to get this type of experience' And so then we met together, and we looked at, okay, what does the function of this need to be for the business? And, you know, we set up some terms of reference, and then we met with the other members, and we started, and we've just kind of worked out as we've gone. But that's been so helpful for me. And I'm glad that I just, yeah, maybe asked in that situation, even though it's really scary, because they're all very professional people. And I'm like, you know, this is just my little business. Are you sure you want to spend your time volunteering to help me in this little thing, to water and grow it and for it to thrive. But yeah, it's been amazing. And just so helpful for me, and that manager of the business role, just having something to set strategic direction to be accountable for and because it's a group of people there's diversity there, which is really helpful.

Laura Jean: 56:17

Yep. I love that. And what a great idea. A great resource and space for you. And also for them, like you said, like, they're getting that opportunity to build skills that they can then use in other spaces and places, as well. because your business to me, it strikes me, because your business is so values aligned and social justice oriented, it's not necessarily like, 'Hey, can you come be this advisory, so we can just make more money?' It's so that we can do all these things, so that we can have that and your values yet not only a tool for your business, but it's actually a way for other people to actually see themselves in your business, a way to connect into your business and to connect to what the purpose is, and what role it's having in the bigger community and just doing things differently. So that's great. So, there you go everyone who's got their own business, that sounds like an amazing, amazing space, and like you said, it can be all different things, and you've just chosen to do it in that way. But finding those ways to actually get the support you need, and to get the skills or that perspective that we don't all have. So whether it's from that those particular professionals or whether it's from certain lived experience, but having that, adding that to the experience so that we know, because we only know what we know, right? And we don't know what we don't know. And if we want to have a business that grows and a business that is outside the current models we see around business then, yet doing it differently is what it takes it's not just thinking about doing differently, but actually doing it differently.

Natalie Mullins: 57:55

absolutely. And recognising that while you know, at the moment, yes, maybe I am the biggest asset of the business and the greatest strength because I've started and have the relationships, I can also be the biggest weakness and I don't want to limit things, I don't want to be the ceiling on this business, I want it to be something that becomes bigger than me, and is scaffolded outside of me, so that I don't want it to be all about me, I want it to grow. And I can only do that exactly, as you said, by getting other people with different perspectives, with different knowledge with different skills. And being really open to that feedback, even though it's scary, taking it on board doing the things and only then can I hope to achieve the goal, which is sort of that broader influence, not just running a profitable dietetics business, you know, that's one part of the goal, but it's not the end game.

Laura Jean: 58:50

And it's a great goal to have as well. And if you have other goals,then you can build upon that and get bigger and I personally am pretty excited to see where you take this and where it goes and how it goes. Because I feel like what you're doing is different. I mean I love that it's kind of in line with what we know like it's not so different in that it's a clinic and there's staff and you're doing the the one so like it is very much like yeah, that's a dietician clinic, and it's bigger and broader than that, and it's doing that differently. And doing that in a way that's sustainable or regenerative is the word I would use for you. Regenerative for you, the humans that are part of the business, the humans you work with and the bigger community and even you know, this Advisory Group you just mentioned then like those humans and the humans in relationship with you so yeah, I love it Natalie and I really can't wait to see where you take this. I look forward to coming and seeing the community garden one day when and all of those pieces and how it grows and how it becomes something that continues to grow. I suppose fuel you, like continues to align with where you want to go, but also creates this whole different way of doing for, and it's not necessarily the purpose of it for you, but for other dietitians to see how you can do things differently, how it can be done differently. And for humans, who connect with dietitians to see what a service or what a space can be. It's not just the dietitian sitting in the GP clinic doing the thing, which is absolutely fine. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but just that the possibilities for us, and also for the humans that want to connect with us that there can be, there's more than one way to do it. And if we want it differently, doing it differently, which is exactly what you're out there doing.

Natalie Mullins: 1:00:40

yeah, absolutely, thank you.

Laura Jean: 1:00:43

And in, it kind of feels like very connected to that. But something I often ask my guests is one of my favourite quotes is like when we're doing this work, it's really different, right, and this quote that I heard, which I always come back to is like, we're planting seeds for a forest, we may never get to spend time. And so we're planting these seeds doing things differently. So in light of that, if you had a seed or seeds that you would like to plant, before we wrap up today,

Natalie Mullins: 1:01:06

I love that love, love, love that. I think the seeds that I am hoping to plant and we'd like to see grow is first and foremost, diversity in dietetics. And that comes from both who we see as being dietitians, we know that most of us are white women, a lot of us are young. And I would really like to see that change over time. That's a seed that I hope is being planted or can be planted from my business. And following on from that, but in a similar vein is just diversity in dietetics, from a professional culture perspective, in terms of what dietitians can offer, what we're capable of ways that we can work that are innovative, social justice focused, and really contribute to our community in ways that respect the skills and the talents that we have, and hopefully the diversity that we have within our profession, which I hope will grow over time. So yeah, I think that's the key seed that I hope, is just diversity in Dietetics and collaboration within that diversity, not feeling like we are competing against one another or not feeling like that one area of dietetics is better than another but recognising that through collaborating and bringing different people to the table, that that's how we will serve our community most effectively.

Laura Jean: 1:02:36

I love it. Yeah. And I have that too. And I really feel like that's how we create a regenerative profession that continues to grow and evolve and meet the needs of both us as dieticians and the humans that we want to share our work with as well. So thank you, and thank you for the absolute example that I believe you are putting out in the world for how to do exactly that. So thank you, Natalie, and thank you for your time with me today.

Natalie Mullins: 1:03:03

It's been an absolute pleasure. I've loved this chat. Yeah, thanks so much for inviting me and having me it's been awesome.

Laura Jean: 1:03:08

It's so good. And before we go, I imagine people would be really keen to check out your stuff, like I know, we talked about, you don't have a huge social media or online presence. But if somebody wanted to go look, or can just connect to reach out, maybe someone's gonna ask, well, they just want to connect to you. Where's the best place for people to do that?

Natalie Mullins: 1:03:28

Yeah, for sure. So just our website is definitely an easy option. It's just pod dietetics.com.au. And there's a few options there. You're welcome to email us. I'm good at responding to emails, probably better than I am at responding to social media. But then also our Instagram and our Facebook page, which is both just pod dietetics. Yeah, you can reach us on any of those. Or you're welcome to call as well, you know, call or text, our contact number is on the website. And I'm more than happy to have a phone conversation or a text conversation, whatever it might be. So yeah, any of those is more than welcome for people to contact.

Laura Jean: 1:04:08

I love it. You're a brave woman encouraging people to call you now.

Natalie Mullins: 1:04:12

Sometimes talking feels easy, you know?

Laura Jean: 1:04:16

Absolutely. Absolutely. Once you answer the phone. I love that. And we'll I'll drop all the links to all of that in the show notes so that people can find that over at the website if you want to connect with Natalie. So thanks so much Natalie. I really appreciate you and the time you've shared and thank you for those of you listening in. We really appreciate you being in the conversation with us. Until next time, bye for now.